BMW: Recommend ECM program for 528I E39 Auto?

In article <com>,
Tom <0.0.1> wrote: 
 

What makes you think you can improve on the maker's settings - after all
they spend a great deal of time and money on this. Unless you've made
alterations to the cams, etc.

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Well to begin with the manufacturer doesnt optimize the engine for
performance. They optimize towards economy and programs that will
work across the QA differences in production.

I have worked with corvettes and other cars for years in tuning and
optimizing the factory settings, and have seen excellent gains. I am
not the only one. Many tuners make excellent coin tuning factory
setups and get super gains. The best gains come from programs tweaked
for a specific car via monitoring the fuel trims, and O2 readings via
a wide band dyno. Modifying the fuel, and timing tables are great
ways to fine tune the motor.

With that said, can anyone point me in the direction of a ECM tuner or
a product that would allow me to tune myself?



On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 01:01:41 +0100, Dave Plowman
<co.uk> wrote:
 

"Tom" <0.0.1> wrote 

Dinan is pretty much the standard tuner for BMW's.

Floyd

In article <com>,
Tom <0.0.1> wrote: 

Who says? You're talking about a BMW here, not a Ford.
 

Why can't they 'optimize' for both? It's a computer, after all. And why do
you think there is a significant spread of tolerances?

The E39 doesn't suffer from drivability issues that some makes do which
might allow a change of software to improve things. True you could
increase the rev limit, but you've got an auto so it's pointless unless
you're going to have that software altered too.

--
*What happens when none of your bees wax? *

Dave Plowman co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn

All modern engines control systems are virutally identical. Not only
because they share the same tech, but they are also limited to fuel
economy and emissions standards. Your crazy if you are naive enough
to beleive GM, FORD, DAIMLER, BMW or whoever dont have virtually the
exact same resouces within thier engineering departments. So the
"mine is better than yours" comment is meaningless with respect to
engineering savvy. yeah, ford puts out some garbage, but they are a
much larger company and sell to many different segments of the market.
Doesnt mean thier computer/engineering knowlege is lacking, just
because they use crappy plastic parts in some of thier cars to sell to
a different segment.

I guess somethings are just unexplainable to some people.

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:52:00 +0100, Dave Plowman
<co.uk> wrote:
 

In article <com>,
Tom <0.0.1> wrote: 

Reasonably true in principle. So what makes you think some tin pot tuning
company can improve on them?
 

Then all cars would be identical?
 

Err, some Mondeos *did* have drivability problems that chipping could
improve. But no BMW ever has, to my knowledge, and certainly not the E39.
 

All of a sudden you're the expert? You seem to be asking an awful lot of
pretty basic questions on this group for one...

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Just for information on this topic:

Car and Driver had a nice article in Oct 1999 about chip upgrades. They tried
an AutoThority chip in a 1999 BMW M Coupe, and a Dinan chip in a 1999 328.
Except for the rev limiter, neither chip made any improvement - dyno runs and
road tests virtually identical.

With my own 328, I encounter enough variation in performance just changing
brands of gasoline, or between CA "junk" gas and gas in other states, plus
noticeable loss of performance on very hot, dry, days, to tell me that my
engine, anyway, seems to be constantly pushing the limits of the knock sensors
just from the factory tuning.

Don't see how one could improve things without *major* modifications - like
maybe more displacement?

Assume many don't agree, so just my .02

Frank

Tom wrote:
 

Actually yes, all OBD-II cars control systems are virutally identical.
Your making something seem complicated and proprietary when its not.

Many can't imagine that fine tuning the parameters in a PCM/ECM can
help. Take this one scenario...

Most modern ODB-II engines run in closed loop mode during non wide
open throttle operation. This means that the O2 sensors are analyzing
the aftereffect of what the engine is doing. During closed loop
operation the engine relies on the Mass Air Flow Sensor, RPM, MAP,
Throttle Posision, to determine how much to trim the digital pulse
train going to the injectors solenoids. And timing advance. The
pulse train fires the injectors slower or faster depending on the air
flow the engine is taking in. This realtime control of the injectors
works pretty good based on algorythems in the computer. It doesnt
care to be exactly perfect, becase the O2 sensors (pre cat O2's) tell
the computer wheter or not its doing its job right. Lets say its
adding just a little too much fuel making the condition rich. The
O2's tell the computer to adjust the fuel trims (short term trims in
the computer), to reduce fuel by adding or subtracting to the embedded
algorythems. In this case, its reducing the injector flow rate to fix
the real time rich condition until the O2's see 14.7:1 a/f ratio. You
would see a negative trim rate on the short term trims. If this
negative rate continues over a long period of time on the short terms,
the long term trims will be updated and the shorts reset to 0. This
process is ongoing and keeps the engine within stociometric air fuel
14.7:1 for emissions compliance. During Non-wot that is. When going
to WOT (or in most cases 80%+ throttle position), the engine goes into
open loop mode. The O2 sensors are ignored, fuel trim updating
locked, and the engine relies soley on the MAF, RPM, and other real
time sensors to map the fuel and timing into the engine. Its this
area where tuning can be benneficial. BTW, Tuning in closed loop is
really useless for performance because of the O2 feedback, but this
area can be manipulated in certain directions to help during wide open
throttle operation as I will show you. In most control systems the
computer will initially address certain tables when going to fuel
enrichment mode (wot) wide open throttle. When going wot, the tables
selected are based on a general snap shot of how it was operating in
closed loop. One aspect of tuning is where lets say the engine was
running lean in closed loop mode. The computer would have been adding
fuel, and in many cases reducing timing, to prevent the knock sensors
of adding knock retard and/or bring the O2's into compliance. Because
the computer perceives this lean condition, even tho corrected, for,
the +fuel trim values (while locked) are carried over to wot
operation. This is to protect the engine from a lean condition that
it cant correct for during open loop mode. Thus its better to tune
closed loop to where the fuel trims are at or below 0 (the long term
trims). This ensures that the computer wont add fuel and make you go
rich during wot. rich does not make power and just takes up space in
the combustion chamber where mixture could be. This is just one
example of tuning that the factory cant afford to fine tune for every
engine rolling off the assembly line. The tuning options are vast.
There are crappy tuners out there, and good ones. One size fits all
tuning programs are not good by aftermarket vendors unless they are
willing to take your OBD-II diagnostic data, from a dyno or road
testing and tweak the program. This I am sure is what leads to people
not seeing good results (like car and driver or whoever), using these
one size fits all programs. Similar to the problem with the factory
one size fits all program.

Yeah, i asked questions here that are newbie type questions, because I
am not familiar with the world of vendors and such of BMW aftermarket
stuff. Forgive me for that. I know what mods do what, as I have been
modding modern engine (not BMW) for many years. I was simply asking
easy questions about what experiences you guys have had with certain
manufacturers products etc and to lead me to these vendors, of which I
have no knowledge of in the bmw world which i am new too. Why is it
that everyone has to bow up and act like they are holier than thou, or
that they know everything. Open your mind, and try to understand that
you dont know everything, and that yeah, the automakers dont make
everything perfect from the mass produced assembly line which they
economically (time-budget contraints) cant (even if they know how
too).


On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:29:58 +0100, Dave Plowman
<co.uk> wrote: