Dodge: REAL air filter testing. More proof that K&N is junk.

In article <41d9c9b7$0.0.1>, "Steve W." <com>
wrote:
 

I once found a site in Japanese where some creative street racers
decided to test filters. They used a shop vac, a measured spoonful of
copier toner, and what appeared to be coffee filters. As usual the K&N
was near the bottom in filtering ability.

They were also quite worried about MAP sensor failures on oiled air
filter equipped cars. Both K&N gauze type and oiled foam.

Its more extreme with a Diesel, as in the SPICER test above, but any
reduction in restriction (K&N's claim to fame) is compensated by closing
the throttle. Your engine requires one quantity of air per unit of work
and this quantity is regulated by the sum of the throttle plate, air
filter restriction, and other intake restrictions. Reduce restriction on
one and increase it on another to maintain the same quantity of air. So
unless your foot is pressed against the floorboard the air filter
restriction doesn't matter.

With the HP race automakers want every cheap horse they can find. If air
filters were as important for HP as K&N suggests then all an automaker
has to do is increase the size of their paper air filters. Bigger paper
filters flow the same volume with less restriction. Only example I know
of is the huge Porsche 928 air filter.

You are right the benefit of K/N is questionable. If it is that good, why
doesn't car manufacturer install them in their car? As far as increase
horsepower! all people have to do is to remove the air filter and try it out
to see if they can tell an improvement. Replace the filter after the test
run. My brother has purchased after market K/N cold air intake. We have
tested the car with and without using G-Tech (accelerometer to test for
acceleration). Test after tests, weather condition, road condition. There
is no benefit. We did not test its filtration ability but sound the copier
toner is a logical way to test.

"David Kelly" <com> wrote in message
news:usenetserver.com... 

WOW.

Once it got to a throw-away paper filter, I figured it would all be the
same. I think I should look into finding an AC Delco that meets the size
I've decided on for my beast!!

GMC Gremlin

"Steve W." <com> wrote in message
news:41d9c9b7$0.0.1... 

I wont defend K&N officially however, the comment that you dont need
that extra air and wont benefit from it is ludicrous. More air, and
cooler air, to a point will get you more power, maybe not enough to
really notice.. 5-6 hp is probably about average. Why doesnt the dealer
put it on, because it gives a bit more growl with that extra flow. add
a CAI set up and you really increase noise. It all depends on the
vehicle. My Discovery runs just fine with the factory filter and being
that dirt is the issue on an offroad vehicle I would prefer to be safe
rather than sorry. However, a conical filter (not K&N) on a high flow
CAI set up produces noticible increase in high end power on every BMW I
have put them on, plus the roar you get with the CAI/foam filter is
awesome.

This is a very interesting study. It displays the AC Delco filter in almost
the same light as others try to display the K&N filter.

Are there other studies out there like this? It is difficult to analyze one
versus another. But if there were three different, unrelated surveys and
they all pointed the same way . . .

Thinking twice about putting a K&N on my new vehicle. Maybe it belongs on
eBay instead?

Paul P
"Steve W." <com> wrote in message
news:41d9c9b7$0.0.1... 

I guess if the price is reasonable and you're not concern about if you
actually gain 5 to 6 hp than install one. But paying over 100 dollars is
bit too much for me. I wont say that I know a lot about engine breathing
nor know how to tune the engine to get extra horsepower with just 100 or 200
dollars. I thought that to get extra horse power you need air + fuel then
exhaust the burnt fuel out with less exhaust back pressure. So if that
case, than improving air does not necessary improve overall engine
performance. Ofcourse I am not talking about clog paper air filter either.
We have to assume that the stock air filter is clean and is representable
for this test. So change once per year is all you need for average driving
condition.
As far as CAI, once again not being the expert on this and since we are in
discussion mode, most CAI I have seen is placed inside engine bay. There is
no fresh air inlet from outside such as ramp-air to funnel the cold air in,
do you still think there is a cold air benefit? Cold air is better for
engine without question as it is more dense than warm air. I can see that if
you change your air intake ports or opening your throttle body or MAF sensor
to increase the cross sectional area plus air inlet from outside to get
cooler air, then you will see a benefit. I have a Bonneville SSEi. I have
removed the air filter, remove the MAF screen one day on open road to test
the car. With the accelerometer, I took several readings and the results
does not indicate with or without air filter to simulate an ideal filter
(stock air box) that there is an improvement.
We did the same test on Focus with Zetech engine but this time with full CAI
cone kit couple with 2 inches aluminum pipe. Once again, the results is not
conclusive.
Perhaps my accelerometer measurement resolution and accuracy is
questionable, but still the benefit between stock air filter vs CAI with K/N
or what have you is still out there.
Having said that, improve Hp does not come cheap with just K/N. I think
there is more to it than that.



"Corey Shuman" <com> wrote in message
news:googlegroups.com... 

well power wise its more on a per engine basis than a lot of people here
give credit. my cavy had a highly noticable increase in performance with
a 10" round eldebrock muscle car filter set-up than with its original
set-up... and then when i got too gutting that cat on that one is was a
very even set-up ... not too much low and not too much high

Paul Proefrock wrote:
 

"Paul" <com> wrote in message
newseHCd.30616$P%bellglobal.com... 
200 
then 
either. 
driving 
is 
in, 
if 
sensor 
have 
CAI 
not 
K/N 
There are two ways to know for sure and only two ways. One take the beast
to a shop with a dyno and put it on it, or two go to the drag strip and make
a dozen runs with each set up and see what the average times are. Races are
won and lost by margins less than a tenth of a second. 5-6 hp can be that
difference. On partial throttle, your not going to see a major difference.
Its when your toes are tickling the throttle plates the increased air flow
comes into play.
Whitelightning