Ford Explorer: Questions on '01 XLT

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 08:17:29 -0800, "LCC" <net>
wrote:
 

I don't know but I'd guess it's mostly just a matter of a different
feel to it. Aside from the radius arm bushing, the old twin I-beam
did seem pretty sturdy.

 

It is very effective. I have never heard of there being any easy way
to defeat it. It will keep joy riders from getting the vehicle but a
really determined pro would just winch it up on a flatbed to steal
it. Of course it won't stop someone from breaking a window and
stealing whatever is in the car.


 

I would certainly bring it in while it was still under warranty. It
could be nothing but the decent dealers will try and find out if there
is a problem and might just find something. The EGR could be sticky
or who knows.
 

If it's like my 99 Mustang it's "real" up till it hits the midpoint.
Once it hits 195 degrees (which is at the midpoint) it won't move past
there until it goes all the way up to around 260 degrees at which time
it would most likely zoom up . I think you can tell by what the gages
do when you first start the vehicle. If they all make a full scale
sweep and then settle into the normal position, it's probably a fully
digital dash with just analog readouts that are controlled by output
from the computer, not direct output from the sensors.
 

Actually it's voltage gauge. And again, if it's like my 99 GT it's
fake. Mine never moves from midpoint even though if you put a real
meter on the battery you can watch the voltage vary. You can also put
the instrument panel into "diagnostic mode" and then what would
normally be the mileage reading turns into a digital readout of all
the gauge readings except it's the real values, unlike the gauges.
 

Anything is possible. However, it's probably not worth the bother.
And it would require more then a different sending unit. In addition
to the new sender you'd have to track down the resister that is used
to fake the gauge reading and wire across it. So you'd probably have
to pull the dash out. I did that on my 92 and would not bother with
it again.
 

IIRC, the '01 Ex is equipped with a HEC (Hybrid Electronic Cluster). Some
inputs (engine temp being one) will come from the PCM and be 'live data'.
Tachometer will be the same. Speedometer (sorry, there's just too much stuff
to remember) may come from PCM or ABS or GEM. The PATS codes are stored in
the PCM on this one but may be stored in the HEC on other lines. I've never
had to troubleshoot the oil pressure guage so I can't speak for the
set-up.... and I'm too damned lazy to flip the laptop open.

The control arm front suspension is designed to impress new buyers......
more and more folks are forsaking cars and rushing to so called 'specialty'
vehicles,,,, be it SUVs, minivans or what. Sturdiness has been abandonned in
favour of ride quality (not that I ever had issues with the ride of twin I
beam).


Jim Warman

"LCC" <net> wrote in message
news:2kstb.3173$.. 
do 
front 
real 

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:00:23 GMT, "Jim Warman"
<net> wrote:
 

Just because it comes thru the PCM does not mean the readout is "live"
data. I have verified the "non-live" behavior on my GT by comparing
the LACK of analog gauge movement with the DIGITAL diagnostic readout
that shows it changing. Ditto for the voltmeter.

 

I'm not really sure what your talking about..... how much temperature
fluctuation are you seeing in the data stream ? The temperature guage has a
very small travel for the temperature range we expect it to represent......
a 10° change in coolant temp isn't going to make much of a change in needle
deflection - imperceptible is a word that comes to mind. The information
supplied to the HEC is updated many times per second - if you'll notice, the
temperature guage climbs as the motor warms..... it doesn't just spring to
the normal range from a computer command.

The data displayed by the HEC regarding the temperature guage is indeed live
data and displays the current operating temperature of the motor. Yes, the
PCM processes the analogue information from the thermistor into digital
information. This digital information is broadcast on the network to be used
by whichever modules require the information. If this data were not live,
the EATC and HEC would not have the current data needed to perform their
functions.

Additionally, the voltmeter has no such relationship with PCM and the
voltage displayed is an honest-to-God guage reading taken at the the pin
which is supplied by the ignition switch 'run' contacts.

Jim Warman
net

"AZGuy" <net> wrote in message
news:com... 

Thanks for the feedback guys.
I will admit I don't understand all the info about the gages and where
they get there data from, but it looks like the bottom line is it would be a
lot of hassle to change them to "real" gages. If you ever have the
opportunity to give a Ford exec. your two cents worth, this would certainly
be one of my pet peeves (how much could this have saved them???).
As for the comment on the alarm system, I am glad to hear that it is a
good one. Interesting note though, when I purchased the X from the Ford
dealer it had a dealer installed security system. They said they do it to
all the vehicles they offer and if you want it when you bye the vehicle, you
pony up about $400. I said no and they offered to cut the price in half. I
still said no and now I'm glad I did. When I said no, a service guy went
under the dash and removed something. The interesting part of all this is
that they said that it had no anti-theft system in it other than the one
they wanted to sell me (I specifically asked about a factory installed
unit). All I know is that the factory unit still appears to work fine.
I guess I'll get over the "sissafy'n" of my front end parts. I'll miss
the twin I beam, but I'm getting used to it. Maybe I'll ask them to take a
look at it when I take it in to have them check out the rough idle.

Thanks again all,

Larry


"Jim Warman" <net> wrote in message
news:bm_tb.63602$.. 
stuff 
never 
'specialty' 
in 
XLT 
I 
models 
doesn't 
I 
too 
theft 
the 
it 
the 
according 
rate. 
oil 
just 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:43:20 GMT, "Jim Warman"
<net> wrote:
 

10 to 12 degrees. An amount *easily* seen on any working analog
gauge.

The temperature gauge has a 

Well, that would be the wrong word. A 10 degree temp change is about
the width of the needle. It's very easy to see that amount of
movement. Especially when you have normal as straight up and the 10
degree increase positions it to a non-straight up portion clearly to
the right of straight up. You'd have to be blind not to be able to
see the difference.

The information 

Where did I say it did? You apparently don't understand what a
trivial software routine it is to program the digital controlled gauge
driver to feed an analog gauge and have it respond "normally", i.e.
linearly, in the range of 100 to 200, then cease further movement
until 255 degrees is reached whereupon it would then allow the needle
to resume movement beyond 200. With a slight amount of damping in the
software it would then rise over a few seconds to the real temp.

 

I never said live data was not available to the PCM, nor did I say
that there was only one data stream coming from the PCM that feed all
temperature input needs. It's obvious that there are multiple data
streams and that the particular data stream used to drive the analog
gauge is programmed to hold the needle at mid-scale regardless of any
temps over 200. This behavior is easily verified. Doing that in no
way precludes the system from feeding the live temp data thru a
different channel to other subsystems that need the REAL temp. Again,
this is really very trivial to do in software/hardware - any high
school hacker could program it.
 

Don't know about the explorer in question, that's why I was careful to
preface my comments with the info that it's for my 99 GT. The
voltmeter in the GT is fake insofar as it does NOT track real voltage,
again, easily verifiable by anyone capable of looking at two readouts
at the same time, the digital diagnostic readout vs the analog gauge
readout. The diag will show the true voltage (as will a real
voltmeter hooked to the battery) while the dummy voltmeter in the dash
just sits at mid-scale. At what point the dummy voltmeter would ever
move, if there is any point at which it would move, I don't know. I
do know that mine has never budged (nor has anyone elses I've ever
talked to who has a 99 or later GT) even when the alternator was going
bad. (Mine was replaced by the dealer to fix a hard start problem
caused by LOW voltage, a LOW voltage NEVER indicated by the gauge).
Nor did it move off mid scale when my battery died and would not start
the car. Nor does it move (like any real gauge does) when you start
the car and the voltage drops to around 9 volts when the starter is
cranking. On my old explorer, which as a real voltmeter, you can see
this happen every time you start it.

The ONLY gauges that are not fudged in some way seems to be the gas
gauge and tachometer even though both appear to be digitally driven.
The oil gauge is 100% fake, it's driven by an on-off switch, the temp
gauge is fake in the range of about 200 to 255 (just a guess at the
upper limit as I'm not going to force it to overheat to finally find
just how hot it would need to get for the computer to let it move),
the voltmeter is mostly fake - it would probably move should the
battery catch fire and melt.
 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:19:35 -0800, "LCC" <net>
wrote:
 

actually, it saves them a ton of money because it has stopped many
many people from coming in for warranty work because they think there
is something wrong with the engine because "that gauge" keeps moving
around "that can't be normal". The typical consumer gets a warm fuzzy
feeling when none of his gauges ever says anything but "MIDSCALE
BABY".
 

There is an additional module you can get on many of them that really
is a factory alarm (with the noisey siren) but that would cost the
dealer about $45 and he can buy the other ones for about $35 each.
The real factory one is additional to the PASS key anti-theift system
and has the siren and senses if the doors are opened. On some of the
Ford vehicles, if not all, all the wiring is already in place and they
just need to pull the trim out of the trunk and plug the module in.

BUt the problem with that, from the dealers side, is if he sells you
the factory one it's probably only a $100 option from FOrd and that's
what he'd have to sell it for. If he puts his $35 one in he can
charge any price he can talk you into. It's a typical dealer scam
like fabric protection, undercoating, wax sealer, etc.

 

"AZGuy" <net> wrote in message
news:com... 
represent...... 
needle 

The deflection may be very small.... if we are looking for a problem, we
will likely find it (the human eye is a wonderful machine). Suffice to say
that, if the motor is running hot, we need an indication that the motor is
running hot..... if there is a requirement for a plus or minus percent
accuracy, costs will increase. Never-the-less, the information is presented
to the HEC in a live format and is presented to the motorist in a fashion
required for proper vehicle operation. 
the 
to 

Where did you say what? I made a statement. I am allowed to do this, yes???? 
live 
the 
used 

Huh? A high school hacker has ruined my temperature guage? Oil pressure
fluctations became a warranty nightmare, ergo the 'new' oil pressure guage.
Engine temp is a no brainer on the new motors featuring cylinder head temp
sensors..... since you're the expert, you can figure that one out on your
own.... The data is indeed live and the HEC shows a presentation of that
data...... the guage will not 'spring' from normal to 'oops'...... I know,
you didn't say that either..... you just said that the temp guage is
unbelievable.
 

I still don't know WTF your '99 GT is and I can't comment...... In some
cases, especially those regarding cars that (I hesitate to use the term)
Yuppies will buy, the less information they receive, the better off they
are....... present company excepted, of course.... AND THAT IS BLATANT..... 

Can I have some of what your smoking????