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Lexus: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

  1. #1
    JK
    Guest

    NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    Anyone out there have any more information on this. Sounds like a similar
    situation occured to my father's 4 month old ES 330, causing substantial
    automobile and garage wall damage. Fortunately no one was hurt?
    Nick

    Again, NHTSA Probes Sudden Acceleration
    By Harry Stoffer
    Automotive News / March 22, 2004

    WASHINGTON -- A relatively new technology, the electronic throttle, is a
    leading suspect in a wave of claims that some vehicles unexpectedly
    accelerate out of control.

    Government investigators are looking at 2002-03 Toyota Camrys and Solaras
    and Lexus ES 300s to determine whether they are defective. More than a
    million of the cars are in service.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has begun a preliminary
    investigation of the latest claims. It is gathering information about 37
    complaints of sudden acceleration by owners of the Toyota and Lexus cars.

    The complaints include 30 reports of crashes. They involved injuries to five
    people; one of them was seriously hurt.

    If NHTSA decides that the added data warrant more study, it will upgrade its
    investigation to an engineering analysis. If the review identifies a defect,
    NHTSA would push for a recall.

    The specter of sudden acceleration has surfaced before. In the 1980s, Audi
    of America Inc. was nearly driven out of the United States by claims that
    its Audi 5000 sedan was prone to accelerate suddenly and uncontrollably.


    Number of complaints to NHTSA about unintended
    acceleration
    YEAR COMPLAINTS
    1987 2,284
    1988 2,930
    1989 2,442
    1990 2,382
    1991 1,939
    1992 1,526
    1993 1,315
    1994 1,321
    1995 1,016
    1996 912
    1997 783
    1998 756
    1999 1,647
    2000 1,382
    Source: A mid-2001 analysis of NHTSA records for Sudden
    Acceleration: The Myth of Driver Error, by J. Castelli, C. Nash, C. Ditlow,
    M. Pecht




    Claims declined

    Claims dropped after Audi installed shift-lock mechanisms, which require a
    motorist to step on the brake before shifting into drive or reverse. All
    vehicles with automatic transmissions, including those with electronic
    throttles, now have shift locks.

    NHTSA has concluded in many previous cases that most incidents of sudden
    acceleration are caused not by vehicles' defects but by drivers' errors.
    Drivers mistakenly stomp on gas pedals, instead of the brakes, the agency
    says.

    Nearly every automaker has faced such claims from time to time. Most of the
    cases allege faults in cruise control systems.

    The Second U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in 2002 reinstated a $1.1 million
    judgment against Ford Motor Co. in response to the crash of a 1991 Ford
    Aerostar. Jurors had found that the crash was caused partly by a
    "negligently designed" cruise control system.

    In the largest known judgment on the issue, a Missouri jury last year
    ordered General Motors to pay an injured woman and her husband $80 million
    for the crash of a 1993 Oldsmobile Cutlass that they blamed on sudden
    acceleration induced by cruise control. GM is appealing, a spokeswoman says.

    Drive by wire

    Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. has not claimed that the latest complaints
    are wrong but says it has not found similar records of complaints or
    warranty claims in its files.

    Toyota spokesman John Hanson confirmed that electronic throttles first
    appeared in the vehicles under review in the 2002 model year. The technology
    is spreading gradually throughout the Toyota and Lexus model lines, he says.

    The system uses sensors to indicate the position of the accelerator pedal. A
    control unit obtains signals from the sensors to adjust the throttle valve
    and thereby change engine speed. Electronics replace the traditional
    mechanical connection between the pedal and the throttle, such as a cable
    and linkage.

    NHTSA also is investigating electronic throttles in some 2002-03 Ford
    F-series pickups and Excursion SUVs. Complaints in that case deal with
    inability to increase engine speed, not unexpected acceleration.

    Clarence Ditlow, director of the consumer group Center for Auto Safety,
    isn't convinced. He says he believes malfunctioning cruise control systems
    are to blame for many sudden acceleration incidents.

    Other advanced electronics, including throttles, also could be sources of
    problems, Ditlow says. "We are very concerned about it as you go more and
    more to drive by wire," he says.

    Ditlow is co-author of a new book called Sudden Acceleration: The Myth of
    Driver Error. The book seeks to refute NHTSA's findings that most incidents
    of sudden acceleration are caused by driver error. It also accuses
    automakers of withholding evidence.

    The authors, including a professor of engineering and another professor who
    specializes in electronic systems, acknowledge that electronics help reduce
    vehicle emissions and improve safety components. But they argue that the
    auto industry should not force "its customers to debug its electronics."

    They write: "The automotive environment, with its broad temperature and
    humidity variations and vibration - and the long reliable life expected of
    motor vehicles - can be a particular challenge for electronics that display
    failures even in more benign circumstances," as in personal computers and
    home appliances.

    The authors cite the industry's efforts to increase the use of electronics
    in vehicles while trimming costs.

    They say: "This pressure can reduce the quality of electronics and
    electronics integration, thus raising the risks of intermittent faults and
    defective operation."


    See also Technology Puts Unintended Acceleration Back in Spotlight



  2. #2
    Dave
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    JK wrote: 

    Yes, the feds recently gave up on it. see:
    http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw101734_20040727.htm



  3. #3
    markjen
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    > > Anyone out there have any more information on this. Sounds like a 

    The problem with all these claims is that every car has an independent
    braking system that has nothing to do with the throttle. And every car has
    brakes that can quite easily overcome the engine's thrust, even at full
    throttle.

    OTOH, it has been proven that pedal error is relatively common driver fault.

    With the new drive-by-wire throttles, the issue is getting murky again, and
    there are (unlikely) scenarios where mechanical/electrical failures could
    cause unintended acceleration. But the driver still has to forget to press
    on the brake.

    When I took driver's ed, we simulated stuck throttle emergencies and the
    reaction taught was the same as should be used today: step on the brake
    HARD to stop the car, then turn the ignition off. I doubt they teach this
    today though.

    - Mark



  4. #4
    Philip®
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    markjen wrote: 


    Press HARD, eh?

    Let me share a experience just yesterday.

    A woman approach my wife an I as we were leaving a restaurant. She
    asked us for assistance with her car. Seems she could get her 2000
    Kia started but not into gear. Upshot, the car was borrowed. She was
    resting her foot on the brake but not depressing it ... which would
    then overcome the gear selector interlock. Draw your own
    conclusions. The dumbing down of the American public is working ...
    it's WORKING!! |^(

    --

    - Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM



  5. #5
    Ice
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    I must agree with Markjen on the brake being strong enough as to hold the
    car back under full throttle. As young and foolish youths we would " brake
    torque" big block Chevys, Pontiacs, ect some of which had 400 cube plus
    engines. This consisted of stomping on the brakes and pushing the pedal to
    the floor make smoke pour off the rear tires. The brakes never failed under
    this stress but I can not say the same for the busted motor mounts or the
    occasional driveshaft that would roll out from under the car.



  6. #6
    David
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    I'm bothered as much by the occasional bucking (i.e., unintended
    acceleration) as I am by the hesitation issue. It seems to me that
    these problems may be one and the same.

    My 2004 ES330 often lurches when I first start it up, put it in drive
    (but not reverse) and take my foot off the brake. It also bucks
    occasionally right after it hesitates.

    I don't consider these flaws safety issues. I can still control the
    car. They're just annoying. These flaws don't annoy me to the point
    where I regret having the car. At least not so far.


    "JK" <com> wrote in message
    news:supernews.com... 
    similar 
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    Solaras 
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    to five 
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    Audi 
    hat 
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    agency 
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    million 
    Ford 
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    complaints 
    technology 
    says. 
    pedal. A 
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    and 
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    professor who 
    reduce 
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    and 
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  7. #7
    Philip®
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    David Z wrote: 


    Make it a SELLING point. "This isn't a flaw, it's a FEATURE!"
    --

    Philip

    An active imagination is a powerful and wondrous force ...
    which is why you must NEVER let it have free rein inside your head.



  8. #8
    Jeremiah
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    David Z wrote: 
    Let's see now,.......you don't regret this..."flaw"? Even after paying how
    much for this car?



  9. #9
    David
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    "Jeremiah" <com> wrote in message
    news:supernews.com... 
    drive 
    point 

    I didn't say that. I said I don't regret buying this car DESPITE this
    flaw. I was fully aware of this flaw when I bought it. I still prefer
    this car over all the others I looked at including BMW, Acura and
    Infinity.



  10. #10
    MCBRUE
    Guest

    Re: NHTSA PROBE ON SUDDEN ACCELERATION

    Sure glad I read this newsgroup. The ES330 is a real sweet car! If it isn't
    refusing to go when you step on the gas, it is lurching forth by itself! And
    the engine gunks up with sludge. The brakes have rotors which can be used to
    replace the rotors which come on the car if the first ones warp too badly. The
    LS430 is a little bit better, merely refusing to go when you step on the gas. I
    don't think it suddenly accelerates by itself but I could be wrong. However,
    the mirror leaks out a deadly poison. And my dealer in Greenville SC sells them
    so fast you have to have him call you when he gets one in so you can test drive
    it (or just go to a neighboring town where they have plenty). Yep! Gotta run
    right out and get one of these magnificant kudzu karz!


 

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