Toyota Prius: 40 mpg Prius vs 50 mpg European Diesel cars

com wrote:

 

I suspect fuel prices. I had a V6 mustang in the us a few years ago as a
hire car. I did about 1200 miles in a week in it. Due to the differences
in fuel prices it was much cheaper than running my 306 diesel back home.
Even when I filled up twice in one day I did not spend much on fuel.
Actually it was not two complete tanks, just that I did not want to run out
of fuel anywhere embarrassing, like in a desert.

I don't understand Priuses, as a technology demonstrator they are
interesting but from what I have seen they are not as efficient as a
diesel.

Pete

--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk

In article <googlegroups.com>
com writes:
 

In Europe we have been developing and using diesels seriously in
cars far longer than the US has, AFAIK. Private perceptions and
legislation played their part, as did the clunky performance of
designs back when attitudes were being set in stone. Add to that
give-away prices of petrol in the US and it's not hard to realise
why diesel became the Sooty Sheep of the fuels-family there.

For many years, in the UK diesel was not taxed as hard as petrol
-- not sure what today's situation is, as I don't run a diesel
and anyhow prices (and taxes) are wandering all over the place.
The famous London black taxis went diesel around when Adam was a
lad, though the pong of diesel and vibration (coupled with urban
taxi driving style) could be stomach-churners for passengers.
 

That figure is likely to depend on petrol engine type. You may
be thinking of the commonplace Otto; but (and I mention it purely
as you troubled to mention the Prius in your Subject and posting
list) the Atkinson is more efficient than the Otto, especially if
operated at/near constant speed, and we surely have not heard the
last of oddities like the Stirling. Add modern control systems.
IOW, study the whole vehicle package when evaluating efficiency.

Previous discussions have wondered whether future hybrid cars may
incorporate diesels, as do some buses currently being trialled in
the UK. (NB: Google is your friend.)
--
Andrew Stephenson

<com> wrote in message
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Disclaimer - my experience with diesels is limited to my TDi work truck.

Diesels are still cantankerous - cold starts are problematic; they still
clatter like something's wrong, especially when cold; the diesel guys who
gave me basic instruction warned me to take it easy on the engine until it
warmed up / quieted down. Cars like Mercedes have quiet interiors as a
result of insulation, but outside they still clatter (so my former Euro-car
mechanic partner tells me.) Smoke is a normal part of start-up and warm-up
and smell is a normal part of operation. I canna change the laws of physics.

Turbo diesels are plenty powerful once the turbo gets spun up, but until
then I wish I had four feet so I could hold the accelerator to the floor
with one, feather the clutch with a second, and do the Fred Flintstone thing
with the other two. You haven't experienced turbo lag until you've waited
for 20 psi boost to appear. (I understand VW's variable vane turbo reduces
that quite a bit, but one still has to choose one's gap in traffic
carefully.) Hybrids excel in off-the-line performance. A TDi hybrid, when
the technical details are worked out, would make a dynamite power train.
Even an electrically boosted turbocharger would be an improvement.

Every diesel pump handle I've picked up is a smelly, oily thing. Gasoline
evaporates, diesel accumulates. I always wear gloves while fueling.

Diesels give great economy on the highway, but scarcely better than
conventional gasoline engines in town. Hybrids walk all over them for
in-town economy.

Mike

What you save in fuel mileage you loose when it breaks, and parts are
needed( more expensive) also fuel filters and maintenance cost are another
looser, Diesel fuel is more expensive than gasoline in today's market, in
the winter you need blended fuel or worse #1 that's probably going to cost
$3.75 a gal this winter, or expensive additives that keep the fuel from
gelling.I have owned 2 diesel and there great for mileage but when it breaks
no matter what it is, it cost more!

Tom




<com> wrote in message
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This is a drivel post. Diesel is more energy-intensive than petrol.
This is the sole reason diesels show a mileage advantage.

On my farm I have both diesel and petrol vehicles and the diesels
always put put more work per litre than the petrols.

To introduce the petrol/diesel energy differential into the greenhouse
debate is a red-herring. Whenever we dig up fuel and release it into
the atmosphere we are bringing the day when Venice, London, Sydney and
Tuvalu disappear below the waves closer.

The fractioning process which separates diesel from petrol uses energy
- probably more than than the energy-advantage of diesel compared with
petrol.

The only fundamental advantage of diesel may be that its engines last
longer (because diesel, unlike petrol, is a lubricant - I have never
seen any research results on this but I have a geriatric Ford 2000
tractor which will probably outlast me).

"Michael Pardee" <com> wrote in message
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<snip) 

This was true of Turbo Diesels but I have found that the modern common rail
diesel engine (of which I have Peugeots HDI model in the 406 that I had new
in 1999) starts better than any petrol engine I have used and is far less
noisy than its predecessors. Also, unlike petrol engines, there is no drop
off in performance before the engine warms up, it starts and is ready to
give full acceleration straight away.

<snip> 

Again, IME, the HDI engine seems not to suffer from any lag and is more akin
to driving a petrol engined car when it comes to pull away and acceleration.
And for interests sake my car averages 46mpg.

--
Keith Willcocks
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)

<com> wrote in message
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Gasoline is more versatile.

"Keith Willcocks" <com> wrote in message
news:com... 
I've heard "yes" and "no" that Europe has more refined diesels (a Swedish
friend who visits family every year says "no"); I presume the common rail
engines are the ones they are talking about. I'll have to study those more.
Do you know if they are available in any US cars?

Mike
(who agrees about the laughter!)