Toyota: 30k maintenance on Echo

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:50:27 -0700, TomH wrote:
 

I believe it requires new plugs @ 30K, it is not a 100K tuneup car.

Unfortunately, if you do it that way, they will note that you did not do the
30K service and then your screwed
"Mark A" <net> wrote in message
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on 
compartment. 

"Car Guy" <com> wrote in message
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the 

You are out of your mind and have no business posting about subjects you
know nothing about. The owners/maintenance manual only requires that certain
specific service items be provided.

It is illegal (in the USA) for Toyota to require maintenance items be done
by the dealer, much less any particular dealer, much less in a package deal
that Toyota Motor has nothing to do with. The dealers are not owned by
Toyota Motor Corp. They are independent businesses. The warranty is provided
by Toyota Motor, not a dealer.

Even if a particular service item was not performed (and I would never
suggest that any service item be skipped), if a warranty issue arose, Toyota
could only deny warranty coverage if the problem was reasonably related to
missing service.

Mark,

"You are out of your mind and have no business posting about subjects you
know nothing about."

Before you start assuming or accusing people of not knowing what they are
talking about, I strongly suggest you get your facts straight.

In Canada, I asked this exact question to Toyota Canada and their reply was
to keep the warranty valid, you must follow the maintenance schedule stated
in the owners/maintenance manual. The maintenance manual also details what
the 32,000 KM service, etc. covers and what the regular oil change service
covers. The maintenance manual that I got was very detailed in what was and
was not covered in each service.

Here is what Toyota Canada posts on their web site:

MAINTENANCE: MINIMUM

Q: Does the owner's manual state the minimum required maintenance for my
Toyota?

A: Detailed maintenance information is found in the owner's manual
supplement, and is the absolute minimal amount of maintenance required to
keep the vehicle warranty in effect. It is common for customers to have
services done more often (depending on driving habits and geographical
areas) than what is recommended by Toyota. For all Toyota vehicles except
2000 models, it is recommended to have the maintenance performed every 6
months or 6,000 km (whichever occurs first), and rotate the tires every
12,000 km. For 2000 models, it is recommended to follow the maintenance
schedule of every 6 months or 8,000 km (whichever occurs first) and to
rotate the tires every 16,000 km, or sooner if required.


At my local Dealership, the regular oil changes cost $26.95 and the 32,000
KM Service costs about $99.95. The 32K service also includes brake
adjustment and a plethora of other things. The only 2 things I also did fro
piece of mind is replace the "drain and fill" the transmission fluid and
coolant to the tune of $69.95 for each service.

I find that one goes to look at cars, they should visit the service dept.
and get a schedule of what needs to be done at what time/mileage and add
this to their cost calculations. It is foolish to buy a car and then
complain about the cost of service (granted some service costs are
outrageous!). It is like having a guy buy a V8 engine that guzzles gas and
then he complains that "my car takes too much fuel". Well duh!




"Mark A" <net> wrote in message
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certain 
deal 
provided 
Toyota 

You are absolutely correct. One CAN get your car service done anywhere as
long as they are skilled enough to know what needs to be done.

The biggest issue that one will encounter is that if some problem arises and
Toyota asks to see the service records, their legal dept. can argue that the
work was not performed by skilled Toyota Certified mechanics. This also
applies to any other manufacturer as well. In the end, it all comes down to
not who is right or wrong, but who has a better lawyer.

As for the question (or statement) that I work for a dealer or am a dealer,
that is simply not true. I would suggest that anyone look into getting
alternate service estimates.

In Toronto, the cost of taking the service at the dealership is within 10%
of getting it done at a private skilled mechanic. I am sure that if I
search hard enough, I can find someone who can do the service cheaper by
using non OEM parts, but that's a different ball of wax.

I suppose I should have presented my opinion with more detailed information
to prevent people like you to blast me for being ignorant.


"Mark A" <net> wrote in message
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you 
are 
service 
to 
except 
32,000 
dept. 
warranty 
not 

"Car Guy" <com> wrote in message
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and 
the 
to 
dealer, 
information 
I don't know anything about Canadian law, but in the USA Toyota would not
claim that a transmission fluid change, radiator fluid change, air filter
change, or oil changed had to be done by a Toyota Certified mechanic. Such
demands (to maintain the warranty) are explicitly illegal in the USA. They
might claim that the service was improperly performed, but they would have
to have some proof of that. They might also claim that dealer service was
improperly performed if there was evidence of such.

The main question was not whether the dealer performs the service or someone
else does. In my response I specifically recommended that the transmission
and radiator service be performed by the dealer. The real question was
whether you have the dealer do these items piecemeal or whether you just
sign up for the "30,000 service special" (or whatever it is called). Getting
the manufacturer required items done individually at the dealer is usually
much cheaper the dealer's "30,000 service special." One can also save money
by purchasing the air filter at the Toyota parts department and installing
it yourself.

That's why I said you didn't know what you are talking about. Perhaps I
should be more polite about this (according to your standards) but this has
been discussed many times in the past.

Mark,

I guess there is a huge price difference in service between us Canadian and
the US. I have taken the costs of doing the services individually and the
difference in price works out to about the same.

Also, my dealer charges the same $$ if I buy the part and have them install
it or do it myself. The installation costs are $0.

As for what Toyota (or any other manufacture) might claim, its entirely up
to them. They can't force you to do anything at their shop as you have
stated is against the law. They can however question the skills of the
person who performed the service if they find the work that was performed
was sub-par or of questionable performance.

One good thing about service costs is that in Ontario, Canada, the cost of
service for a Toyota vehicle is virtually identical regardless of where you
take it. Also, if you get some services performed, they also have special
internet coupons that allow for 10% to 20% discount on the already standard
costs. This was one of the reasons why I went with Toyota as the service
costs are fairly reasonable and not overpriced like their Lexus division.


"Mark A" <net> wrote in message
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as 
down 
10% 
someone 
Getting 
money 
has 

"Car Guy" <com> wrote in message
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and 

Apparently you didn't read the original post. He said the dealer wanted $280
for the 30K service (on an Echo no less). Here is a breakdown on the
individual dealer prices of what I recently paid on a Camry V6 XLE:

Transmission Service $90
Radiator Service $50
Oil Change $30
Air Filter $18 (installed)

Total price $188, a savings of almost $100

Had I shopped around at other dealers in my area, I might have been able to
find service or parts specials to make that even lower. For example I have
occasionally seen transmission service specials advertised for $75 (with
coupon) at dealers in my area. I have also seen genuine Toyota air filters
part special advertised for $10-$15 (with coupon).
 
install 
Maybe for an air filter there is no service chare for installation, but I
bet you don't get any discounts that may be available at the parts counter.
There are also some good quality 3rd party air filters available.
 

I never suggested using a non-Toyota dealer to do the service (except
perhaps for an oil change). This is red herring you keep raising because you
didn't read the original post or my response carefully. But I don't see how
one can question the skill of changing the transmission fluid and radiator
fluid if the levels are OK (easily checked) and they use the right kind of
fluid (which may include Toyota Red Coolant). Remember that Toyota cannot
deny warranty service just because they may find inadequate maintenance on
some unrelated item.

But I actually did specifically recommend using Toyota Dealers for radiator
and transmission service, but not for oil changes (I use Mobil 1 oil and
Mobil 1 oil filter). 9 times out of 10, Toyota dealers use the wrong
viscosity (10W-30 or 40) instead of the viscosity recommended by Toyota
(5W-30). The dealer does this because, not being a high volume oil change
shop, they can save money by keeping fewer oils in inventory (they purchase
oil in bulk drums). The dealers usually don't use the high skilled techs for
oil changes.
 
you 
standard 
I don't know about Ontario, but where I live there are rarely (if ever)
specials on the 30K service packages, only specials on the individual
service items. I think they assume it is easier to rip off consumers when
the new car smell is still present and the owners are still a little
paranoid about the cars.