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Nissan Altima: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

  1. #1
    akheel
    Guest

    2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    Long (but I think interesting and informative) story followed by pertinent
    questions.

    One day here in California, I start my 2002 Altima 3.5 with 42K miles on it
    (which I love and has never given me a problem before). The "Service Engine
    Soon" light comes on and even though the engine starts fine, I can't get it
    above 1100rpms no matter how far I push the accelerator pedal. I turn the
    engine off, restart and all is fine, but of course the SES light is still
    on. The next morning, it turns over fine and starts, but dies after a
    second. I try this about 20 times, same result. Finally it starts, but
    same no rpms problem. After a few more stop/restart trys, it roars to
    life. Once its running with full rpms available, there is never a problem.

    Of course by now, even dumb me realized I ought to have this checked out.
    Its Friday, I take it to the dealer on my way to work. He can't take me
    that day, and gives me an appointment for Monday morning. I decide to drive
    it over the weekend and take my chances. Most times, it starts right up,
    but maybe once a day, a have to go through the same start-die, start no
    rpms, start fine procedure.

    I decided I ought to do some invesigation of my own to limit the chance of
    the dealer ripping me off. First I checked the recalls on this car.
    There's one for the crank position sensor (cps). My symptoms sound just
    like that, but mine's already been replaced under the recall, before I had
    any problems. I even see that there is a cps recall to fix the first cps
    recall, but mine was done after the second one, so should be ok. Then, I
    rented a OBD II code reader at Auto Zone (free, just make a $170 security
    deposit). The code came back P1121 Fuel/Metering. This is an OEM code, so
    there's no specific definition. I searched the web on the sites that
    supposedly have all of the Nissan OEM codes, but none of them seem to know
    P1121.

    I bring it to the dealer 7:30 am Monday morning. I chose a dealer because
    even though I'm passed my 36K mile basic warranty, I was pretty sure the
    problem ought to be covered under California's 50K mile "Emissions Defect
    Warranty." Its my understanding after reading my warranty book, and studing
    the California Air Resources Board (CARB) website, and having similar
    experinces with other cars (see the p.s. below about the attempted rip off
    at a Ford dealer on a similar issue), that pretty much anything that sets
    off the Service Engine Soon or Check Engine Light is covered, by law, under
    the California's 50K mile Emissions Defect Warranty.

    The service rep at the dealer writes up my ticket and says they'll check it
    out and let me know. I told him the symptoms, but I didn't let him know
    about the results of my code check. He puts an initial estimate of $85 for
    the diagnosis. I tell him that I'm pretty sure that becasue of the SES
    light, it ought to be covered under the Emissions Defect Warranty. He says
    maybe, but many things aren't cover under that, including sensors; that it
    has to be specifically mentioned, such as a catalyst. I tell him he's
    wrong, that anything connected to the ECM or monitored by it, including
    sensors, are covered. He says they'll check it out and he'll call me.
    With that, I walk away to my ride, my back to him, muttering under my
    breath my opinion of his viewpoint, complete with a few choice profanities.

    4:00 pm and still no word on my car, so I call the service rep. They can't
    find him, so I leave a voice mail "What's up with my car." Service rep
    calls me back about 4:30 pm. Good news, bad news. Good news, the problem
    is indeed covered under the Emissions Defect Warranty. Bad news, they don't
    have the part. They would be happy to have me leave the car there until the
    get it (great, either no car or $35+/day in car rental fees) or pick-it up
    and bring it back when they do have the part, and of course take my chances
    with the no start issues until then.

    I decide to pick up my car and take my chances, especially since I'm going
    on vacation in a week and won't need it. When I get to the dealer, the
    service rep explains that the problem is the "throttle chamber." I'm not
    sure if this is a sensor or what, but he shows it to me. Its on the air
    intake duct about half way between the air filter and the engine. It has a
    big electrical connector on it. I ask him if this is something like a Mass
    Air Flow sensor, but he says no, its different, but can't really tell me
    what it does. He says he's seen this problem on few Nissan V6s and wonders
    if there might be a defect (no recall on it, he checked it and so did I).
    He also apologized if he seemed rude earlier in the morning (he must have
    heard my muttering), but according to him, indeed some sensors (earlier he
    said it was all) aren't covered under the Emissions Defect Warranty, such
    as the O2 sensor. Since mine was covered, I chose not to debate the point
    with him. When I got in the car, I noticed one interesting thing. There
    was a little slip of paper, like you get from a cash register. It was the
    printed test results from the code scan the dealer did. It has the date and
    the title "SELF-DIAG RESULTS." It says "ETC ACTR" and "[P1121]" the same
    code I got. I'm guessing ETC ACTR stands for Electronic Throttle Control
    Actuator, but that is indeed a pure guess. My invoice from the cashier says
    "CAUSE THROTTLE CHAMBER DEFECTIVE" and "CORRECTION SPECIAL ORDER THROTTLE
    CHAMBER."

    Anyway, it now the next Saturday, five days later. Over the last week, the
    no start problem has periodically popped up. It most cases its just an
    annoyance because the car starts right up after a few trys. But one
    evening, it took me almost a half an hour to get going and I was pissed.
    Having not heard anything for a week, I called the service rep Friday
    afternoon to see about my part. "Oh, they haven't emailed me, so that means
    the part is not in; I'll call you when it is." Tommorow I leave on vacation
    for a week, so lets hope they use that week to get their supply chain
    moving.

    So here are my questions:

    1. Anyone else experience a no start, start but no rpms problem like this?
    If so, what was it? Is this problem wide-spread? Maybe there should be
    recall on it.

    2. Does anyone know what Nissan OEM OBDII code P1121 specifically refers to
    and why no one else does. What does ETC ACTR describe?

    3. What does the Throttle Chamber do?

    4. Am I right about California's 50K mile Emissions Defect Warranty? Here's
    a quote from the CARB website "California's emission warranty requires the
    vehicle manufacturer to repair under warranty any problem that the OBD II
    system detects if the vehicle is less than three years old and has less
    than 50,000 miles." Another quote: "including any defect...which would
    cause the vehicle's on-board diagnostic malfunction indicator to
    illuminate...."

    5. (not really a question) Please educate everyone you know about all of
    their rights under the emissions warrantys. In addition to the 36month 50K
    mile California emissions warranty, there is a Federal equivalent. Its
    limited to 36k miles, so it wouldn't help me. There is also a Calfornia 7
    year 70K mile warranty on "major" emission items like fuel tanks, intake
    and exhaus manifolds. The ECM and Catalyst are covered for 8 years or 80K
    miles under federal law.

    P.S.
    I also own Ford Explorer. It was runing real rough one day. My wife took
    it to the Ford dealer. Dearler tells my wife, bad fuel injector, normally
    lots of money, but Ford has a "special program." Ford will pay for 2/3 of
    the fix; my cost only $200. I tell wife I'll call dealer. I call dealer
    and tell him fuel injectors are covered under emissions warranty (car had
    just under 50K miles). He says, have to check "this car." (Note, the
    emission warranty is the same for every car). He calls me back. Yes its
    covered, no charge. Moral of the story, know your rights! Also, aren't
    these guys scum. The dealer knew full well it was covered. But they won't
    tell you unless you tell them.

  2. #2
    rhinoman98
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    I am too lazy to read all of this, but I am pretty sure I know what your
    problem is. If your car is starting...but you can't get any revs out of
    it, the problem is most likely your MAF (mass air flow sensor) There has
    been a very big problem with the MAF's in the newer gen. altimas going
    bad. just replace this, and you should be fine....and if not...then I
    don't know....


  3. #3
    akheel
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    "rhinoman98" <com> wrote in
    news:talkaboutautos.com:
     

    As it turns out, it was something called the "throttle chamber" and the
    dealer replaced it under the emissions warranty for free. I don't know
    what the throttle chamber does, but I think it has something to do with the
    electronic throttle control. Is thre a MAF in the throttle chamber? The
    service rep pointed out the throttle chamber and its in the same area as
    you would expect to find the MAF

  4. #4
    MichaelMidfield
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    I just wanted to thank you for the info. My Nissan Altima 2002 was at
    47,000 miles on it and the SRS light came on. I found your info. a great
    help when I went to the dealership. I was 3,000 miles away from it being
    not covered. The same exact problem. The throttle chamber was stuck from
    time to time and the rpm would not go past the 1000 as you describe. I
    took the car to the dealership and mention the Emission Warranty and felt
    really empower by the info. you provide. Thanks again.




  5. #5
    akheel
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    "MichaelMidfield" <com> wrote in
    news:talkaboutautos.com:
     

    Your welcome. Spread the word.I think Nissan should do a recall on this
    throttle chamber thing so even those not under any warranty are covered. It
    could be a real saftey problem. I think I'll report my problem to the NHTSA
    and see what happens. If a enough people do, they'll issue a recall.

  6. #6
    marnienuccio
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    Well, I took the time to read everything because my mechanic just informed
    me that it could cost up to $550 to replace two O2 sensors in my 2002
    Nissan. My SES light has been going on and off for maybe 5 months now.
    On maybe 3 occasions I have had trouble starting my car but after a few
    attempts it always started up so I never thought much about it. I haven't
    noticed any problems with RPMs. I know very little about cars. I am at
    60K so from what I have read so far it doesn't sound like my problem will
    be covered under any State or Federal warranty. Right? It is hard to
    understand what the warranty actually covers if you aren't familiar with
    the car parts "lingo". Any suggestions?


  7. #7
    akheel
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    "marnienuccio" <com> wrote in
    news:talkaboutautos.com:
     

    The easiest non-technical way to summarize it is, any malfunction that
    causes the "check engine" or "SES" light to come on is covered under the
    emmissions warranty. The problem for you is that it's only 36K miles in
    most states and 50K miles in California. So you aren't covered for the O2
    sensors. Some other big parts are covered longer, primarilhy the catylitic
    converter (I don't have my book with me to give you the full list, but I
    know the O2 sensors aren't on the extended coverage list). $500 sounds
    high. You ought to shop it around. Its not too hard for a good do it your
    selfer, but if you don't understand "car parts lingo" its proably beyond
    your skill level.

  8. #8
    John
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    To heck with the bonehead that wants to charge you that much to change
    two O2 sensors. Go to the parts store and buy them yourself and install
    them. All you need to do is buy the O2 socket or a 22 millemeter wrench
    and do it yourself. Then go to Autozone or another parts store and get
    the light turned off...

    marnienuccio wrote:
     


  9. #9
    marnienuccio
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    Thank you John Smith and akheel for your reply's. I was scheduled to take
    my car in on Monday to have the O2 sensors replaced. I will look into
    getting the parts myself and see what I can do. I gave my car a tune-up
    once but I had someone there to help when I got stuck. Maybe I can figure
    this out and save some money. If not I'll shop around for a more
    affordable mechanic. Thanks again! I really appreciate it.


  10. #10
    akheel
    Guest

    Re: 2002 Altima Throttle Chamber and Calif. Emissions Warranty

    "marnienuccio" <com> wrote in
    news:talkaboutautos.com:
     

    Check out Pep Boys. I know a lot of people will tell you that they are no
    good and I would have told you that as well until recently, but I've found
    that for simple things (and O2 replacement is pretty simple), they do as
    good as job as most and for a lot less. The key is that they sell you the
    parts for the same as if you bought them at the counter, rather than mark
    them way up like most mechanics.


 

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